Happy May Day!
I slept well despite getting up at 2:30 and 6:30, finally
waking/getting up at 9am.
Teresa and I made French toast for breakfast.
More Expat Exchange comments on the subject of our home
invasion:
Jonrod888: BJM is correct with living in Colombia. You
always have to look over your shoulder and never let anyone know of your
personal finances nor possessions. You can not trust in-laws ... people here
talk. NOT THE SAME IN USA.
I doubt if anyone reading this forum has enough money to make it worth the
effort for someone in the USA to kidnap, watch, scout, break-in for $$$$. Yes,
there are random robberies, shootings etc. but they are random in the USA. In Colombia, $100US is a lot of money but not so
much in the USA
to make it worth the chance of being put in jail. Colombians don't think they
will get caught nor put in jail. Most on this forum are average/below average
income in the USA but in Colombia you
are a rich Gringo. Yes, there are high risks of living in a developing country
where the average income is low ... that's why most gringos are here.
Jonrod888: But it's not the in-laws who will rob you
... not directly anyway. They will talk or brag to friends and others will hear
the conversation and so on. Eventually, someone will need the money and then it
will happen by a friend of a friend.
8901: From my lifetime of traveling and decades on these
expat forums I have deduced that there are two very distinct and different
types of expats. #1. Is the individual that planned well and has adequate
resourced to continue living in Europe or the U.S. but chooses not too for
various reasons that are to his benefit such as being able to relocate into
more luxurious living at a fraction of the cost both upfront and monthly and
probably the allure of greatly increasing his success with the opposite sex.
#2. Is a guy who really couldn't fit in back home and out of frustration pulled
the pin too early. He now finds himself living in the lower stratas barrios and
just narrowly living better than the average Colombian. His pressures are that
he realizes as time passes and inflation erodes his already marginal resources
things will only get worse for him. If one decides too move to Colombia and is
in the expat # 1 category he would be well advised to associate himself only
with the other expats in his same category and to keep all the others in the #2
category at very long arms distance. These individuals are just as likely to
set you up or rob you as a Colombian friend or in law. Knowing these parameters
and following them will alone greatly increase your individual security. As I
read through this and other threads I can spot the expats in the #2 category
just by the way they post. They are stuck in an environment that they do not
like and know they screwed up and see no way out so when a thread like this
comes up its an unwelcome sober reminder of this and they will immediately go
into denial and try to imply that this somehow is the fault of the victim and
insinuate that he must of been wearing diamond rings and a Rolex or this never
ever would of happened. Living in Colombia as anywhere else has advantages and
disadvantages and one of the disadvantages is that being a gringo makes you
head and shoulders above the average Colombian a priority target for all types
of crime and that includes petty theft, home invasion and even kidnapping.
Forming strategies on where to live etc. to minimize these possibilities should
be the foundation of where the expat begins and which all other aspects of his
social life follow from. Ignoring or denying these unfortunate realities is a
strategy one can choose but by doing so you have given up whatever control you
have over your personal safety. I personally acknowledge these unpleasant
realities, make my plans and chart my course to put myself in the best odds of
avoiding them and then never think about them again and enjoy life and all the
positives that living in South America has to
offer. To the OP. In hindsight you may now realize that living in a finca was a
bad decision but on the upside though it was traumatic no real loss was
incurred and your experience has definitely made you and your girlfriend more
aware and less likely to ever be a victim again especially in a securer
setting. Chalk it up to experience, put it behind you and enjoy whats in front.
JasonWriter: Wow. This is some crazy yet informative stuff.
I was about to write this: "I'm going to ask my Paisa friend what
experiences he's had/heard about like this, living around Medellin most of his
life." But I just remembered one thing he mentioned. He owns some property
in and around Medellin, including a finca
outside of Medellin.
Me, this Colombiano friend, and a few people were spending a few days and
nights at the finca. At one point there was what sounded like gunshots in the
distance. My Paisa friend got a little worried, "Sometimes people will
come onto your property and rob you. It happened to me a couple times in the
1990s." Needless to say I was pretty damn uneasy the rest of the night.
But nothing happened. He also told me about a few highway robberies he ran into
out in the Colombian countryside while traveling with gringos he brought to
visit Colombia.
That was in the early 2000s. Well, I guess the central point is: keep your
guard up, be careful, wherever you are in this crazy-ass world.
Cafetero: 8901, I won´t reply to your rather long winded and
morbidly unhappy post because it would make me appear to be in denial. Which
would put me squarely in your make believe expat-door-number-two category which
quite frankly I don´t think exists at all. Jason, you are wise to heed the
messages from the past. I have Colombian friends who own fincas and small
businesses and they tell some frightening stories about years gone by when they
had to pay protection money to guerrillas or get knocked off. Fortunately most
of that ended during the 8-year Uribe administration and continued in a
different vein during the Santos
administration. The US
financed Plan Colombia
has been very successful in helping to tame what used to be a Wild West. Nonetheless,
from events such as Andresen´s it is still very much a concern here. But, for
most Americans such as myself, who live in gated communities in the upper
strata it is not something we think about continually, In 7 years in Colombia I have
been robbed once, I lost three cameras, an iPad and iPod, total loss about
8,000,000 at the time. In Asia I was mugged on
a dark street and lost $20. In the US my house was burglarized and I
lost a nice TV and some jewelry. I count myself pretty lucky to have never experienced
an armed confrontation similar to Andresen´s. I hope that if it ever happens to
me I will have the good sense to just let it happen without resisting and the
outcome will be bad but not horrible.
Leo8530: The first week I moved to Los Angeles I was robbed, kidnapped, car
jacked at gun point with the continual threat of being murdered by someone who
was out on bail. I barely escaped with my life. I never had a problem in Medellin using common
sense. The difference here is I feel that if there was a problem and I don't
resist then I will not be hurt and only loose some stuff. In Los Angeles I could have lost my life even if
I didn't resist. It comes down to basic humanity and I feel the basic humanity
is infinitely better in Medellin than in the USA and my chances of being hurt
in medellin are much less than in the USA.
Cafetero: CAdeMde, agreed. I felt the exactly the
same way when driving through New York and New Jersey late at
night. A broken down car left alone will be stripped within minutes. Imagine
what they do to people who are stranded out there.
Bigjailerman: Every Country, state, city and town
have bad crime ridden areas. If you reside in those areas we are unnecessarily
exposing ourselves to the elements. Generally though the non burnt out, non
drug infiltrated, gang run areas, is perfectly safe within US borders . If your
car breaks down, you call AAA and 99% of the time you are at minimal risk.
Everything in the world is a comparison. This compared to that and vice versa.
Overall using the minimal amount of common sense, you are safer in bosom of the
USA in Colombia.
Unfortunately, they also erode values by saving you from yourself and we now
raise too many feminized men that look to be helped through every level and
excuses abound.
Leo8530: Sorry I forgot to say that I was in a very good
part of Los Angeles in West
Hollywood near a major intersection in the early evening. The
criminal was very well dressed. This was a very planned and deliberate attempt
to rob me. The police said he was planning on murdering me cuz the jail time
would have been so long if caught. The criminal said he was out on bail for
murder and had nothing to loose at this point cuz he was eventually going to
jail for a very long time.
8901: Cafetero if you think my post is morbidly
unhappy it is because reading the truth makes"YOU" feel that way ...
I am not. I live in reality, face it .. and like I said make decisions based
upon it and live thank god up to this point incident free and happy. Believe me
very happy. If you have never met or believe do not exist mal adjusted and
financially marginalized expats then you either do not have a very good set of
antennas or are in denial or just don't get out allot because they exist and
live amongst us in every country. Just google Frankie fixit for the latest and
most horrifying example that less than a year ago took place in the D.R. where
a typical mal adjusted psycho expat befriended and then murders his new best
friend with the help of a local girl and then forged documents and took
possession of all his properties, monies and businesses. Making comparisons of U.S. versus Colombia in regards to safety are
not valid. Spending the night in the worst ghetto in NYC where you can pick up
the phone and call the best police department in the world that will respond in
minutes compared to spending that same night in a hillside barrio in Medellin
as a gringo where the police "leave" at 5:00 (before sundown to be
safe) and will not return till the next day is not comparable. You spend the
summer in a finca in Medellin vs. me spending it in a summer home in
Westhampton wearing gold rings and a rolex and a bmw parked in the driveway in
a non gated community and lets bet on whom gets robbed and home invaded first.
I enjoy your knowledgeable and fact filled posts Cafetero and know you love
Colombia as do I and believe me have no desire to offend you. I sincerely
believe and live by that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and we
are all here to share and gain knowledge with the goal of leading a stress and
trouble free life to the greatest extent possible.
Bigjailerman: LEO, Your situation is really out of the
ordinary. Things like that in the states are far and few between. Why do you
think you were singled out, he spent alot of time planning it, did you have any
interactions with him in the past, acquaintances and such? 8901, where do I
start with your posts haha. "Making comparisons of U.S. versus Colombia in regards to safety are
not valid." The comparisons are completely valid regarding, they are on
total polar opposites. The statistics dont lie. US is way safer and you are
supporting my post. Maybe I am misunderstanding your intent, but as much as I
love Colombia
facts are facts, not that I am leaving anytime soon. "Spending the night
in the worst ghetto in NYC where you can pick up the phone and call the best
police department in the world that will respond in minutes compared to
spending that same night in a hillside barrio in Medellin as a gringo where the
police "leave" at 5:00 (before sundown to be safe) and will not
return till the next day is not comparable. You spend the summer in a finca in
Medellin vs. me spending it in a summer home in Westhampton wearing gold rings
and a rolex and a bmw parked in the driveway in a non gated community and lets
bet on whom gets robbed and home invaded first." Well it wouldnt be
Westhampton that’s for sure. Ditto, in Colombia safety is more of illusion
if you think you can lounge day after day with the finer things in your
possession and it is generally known. It’s like this..as good as you may drive,
the odds of getting into an accident increases the more you drive. I dont agree
though with your original assessment regarding gringos. There are more shades
than that, its not A or B. As for the 730 wack jobs are distributed similarly
throughout all populations.
WhoaNellie: "Spending the night in the worst ghetto in
NYC where you can pick up the phone and call the best police department in the
world that will respond in minutes compared to spending that same night in a
hillside barrio in Medellin as a gringo where the police "leave" at
5:00 (before sundown to be safe) and will not return till the next day is not
comparable." I agree, they are not comparable. And I'd much rather be on the hillside, maybe
not in Medellín but elsewhere in Colombia, rather than that part of NYC where
they hate me and anyone who looks like me, and where the police responding in
minutes (when seconds count) is just waaay too useless! Location is important.
Regardless of the recent problems in Colombia, there are still many
relatively safe places. And I still will feel safer in the parts of Cali I know, with my family there, than in some of the
parts of Memphis, TN I know. The sad fact is that anywhere in
the world, your safety is in YOUR hands as much or more than anyone else's.
Like they say even in the US,
You know what they call someone who depends only on the police for their
safety? A victim.
ParadiseLost: I think the point that 8901 has about living
in lower strata barrios is actually a good point. One can live cheaply in Colombia, but
once you start trying to live very cheaply - perhaps living like a local - that
creates issues. Poblado is often a subject of ridicule on this forum as being
some sort of 'Gringoland', well there are more gringos about than in other
parts of the city but that makes any ex-pat who lives here less of an
exception. Additionally the locals in Poblado generally are affluent too. I
understand the attraction of living 'with the locals' - both from a cost and
cultural point of view. But if you're the only gringo on the block that removes
a lot of the radar cover. You don't have to be a rich gringo with a rolex to be
seen as an attractive target in a poor area. Just being a gringo may be enough.
Andersen has an excellent blog. He has told the story of the home invasion and
the follow up in great length there. Currently he's looking for an apartment to
live in - and leaving (understandably) the finca. In a recent posting he stated
'Teresa talked to a man working in the store next door and it appears we are in
Estrato 4 so we won’t have to pay extra for the utilities – (Estratos 5 & 6
subsidize Estratos 1 & 2)'. I read that and thought that perhaps there's a
preoccupation with cost that doesn't enhance security. I know that the Estrato
system is anything but perfect and that there are many exceptions but for
security being in the best area you can afford makes sense. My wife's family
owns a farm a couple of hours outside of town. We had thought about making the
farm house into somewhere that we could spend the weekends. However the
situation up there is not improving and being the only gringo around - and
living on a remote farm - only invites issues. So any upgrade plans go on hold
- and likely will for a long time. It's unfortunate -but as others have said
it's identifying and managing the risk. Lastly to Andersen - who as I say has a
blog we should all read (it really does capture his life in Colombia) I do
think perhaps it's time to start cutting back on some of the detail. For
example posting the day that you go to Western Union
to collect the money that your brother sent, or that you've got new debit cards
to pick up probably shouldn't be in your blog. Of course it's extremely
doubtful that the bad guys are reading your blog, but until you are out of the
Finca and in some location that is more secure - safety first!
8901: bigjailerman take a deep breath and re-read my post. I
am DEFINITELY 1000 % supporting what you say. Re-read it. My point was many
people year after year spend the summer in Southampton, Westhampton, and
multiple other U.S.
vacation spots exhibiting exorbitant wealth and return safely and without
incident repeatedly year after year. Try that in Colombia. My example of Police leaving
and not returning in certain barrios is an undeniable example of how one’s
safety is an illusion compared with being in a place where the police will
respond in minutes. Of course there are many shades of expats in between. But
those in between are things a man will have to determine himself on an
individual basis and to elaborate on all that would have been exhausting, Relax
guy ... The scenarios I am presenting are the reasons behind the statistics you
cite. My saying you cannot compare Colombia
to the USA
meant that the facts (statistics) do not even permit it and for those here whom
were trying to deny the statistics with their personal examples of misfortune.
I was only countering it with glaring examples of comparable situations of US
vs. Colombia
jeeees!
8901: @WhoaNellie ------------------------------ "I'd
much rather be on the hillside, maybe not in Medellín but elsewhere in
Colombia, rather than that part of NYC where they hate me and anyone who looks
like me," --------------------------------- I understand your point that
being a white man in a devil neighborhood can make you a target of not only
crime but an assault but allot of crimes also include violence so the police
response factor to me looms large.
We took a nap from about noon to 1pm.
We didn’t go to Caldas today so Teresa cooked up something
for the dogs.
Teresa is very anxious to get out of the finca now, perhaps
so much so that she’s willing to take the first apartment available. I would like to look at some 2 bedroom
apartments now that we’ve decided that Laura could stay in Wilson’s
apartment whenever I have guests from the US.
We found a small lizard in the finca. I caught it and dropped it out the back
window. I used to see them all the time
in my apartment in Laureles, here not so much.
Cafetero: Me, I just find it funny that some people
try to impose their views on others uninvited, then get ticked off when
nobody´s buying it. I also find it funny when people say they aren´t going to
respond to a stupid post, then go ahead and do so anyway. Lots of funny things
in life. I guess I´m so far in denial I can´t see the fun for the hilarity. Don´t
worry CPU8901, I already know that will go over your head.
8901: Hey Cafetero I had about enough of your sh_t.
--------------------------------- " Me, I just find it funny that some
people try to impose their views on others uninvited, then get ticked off when
nobody´s buying it." ----------------------------------- Since you are not
man enough to say 8901 (instead of "other people") I'll say it for
you. Who was imposing their views ? I simply stated mine. Wow dude you are
intimidated very easily. Believe me if I decided to impose myself on you, you
will know it. As far as being uninvited ?? Who the hell put you in charge
A-hole ?? LOL this guy cracks me up --------------------------------- Lots of
funny things in life. I guess I´m so far in denial I can´t see the fun for the
hilarity. Don´t worry CPU8901, I already
know that will go over your head. ---------------------------------- My post
about the unprepared and financially marginalized expat seems to have really
hit a nerve with you. hmmmm I wonder why ? Believe me you could put nothing
past me or over my head little man I went out of my way several posts ago to
say I enjoyed you knowledgeable posts and no offense intended and you have not
relented at taking what I say personal and making it personal with digs at me
which I up to now have not done to you at all. If it offended you and the shoe
fits well ..wear it. I will not try to make nice with you anymore. You give me
the impression you are one of those expats that were unable to fit in at home
and are financially marginalized and also a "girlyman" at how you are
so easily offended and intimidated. Post a Reply.
Cafetero: See, I told you it would go over your head. Sorry
dude, you´re waaaaay past being interesting to talk to.....good trolling
though, you´re very good at it so it’s obvious you spend most of your time
practicing. Doesn´t look like anyone is biting though. Better luck next time.
jajajajajaja
I finished Harlan Coben’s 274 page Fool me Once and downloaded Nelson DeMille’s 432 page Night Fall.
At 4:30 it started raining – hard. It stopped 10 minutes later. I noticed it was raining when I went to bed.
T-shirt of the day: Trash talker.
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